We sit down with David Gass, former MLS “Extratime” co-host and now founder of Soccerwise HQ, to discuss many aspects of American soccer — from MLS’ growing pains to his new venture and podcast with MLS transfer expert Tom Bogert.
David Gass may not know it, but he has become a household name for American soccer fans. The “Gassman,” as his friend and former podcast partner Andrew Wiebe calls him, was not a conventional soccer fan, but became one over his 12 years working for Major League Soccer.
The league ended “Extratime,” the official MLS podcast that he and Wiebe co-hosted, prior to the start of the 2025 season for reasons still unclear. However, Gass had already begun branching off on his own and founded Soccerwise HQ, a boutique soccer agency that defines itself by creating content and coverage for the knowledgeable North American soccer fan.
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Gass has also teamed up with MLS transfer expert Tom Bogert to create the “Soccerwise Podcast,” which in a few short months, has leapfrogged many established soccer shows and is now one of the most listened to soccer podcasts in the country.
In a sit-down interview with Urban Pitch, we spoke to Gass about the ever-growing competition in soccer podcasting and how one can stand out in a landscape where it seems that anyone with a cell phone and internet connection can get in on the pundit game.
Interview edited for clarity and brevity.
Urban Pitch: So, how is life after MLS?
David Gass: As you know, I’ve covered MLS for almost 10 years and was working on “Extratime” for a long time, which was the official show of the league. I also did a lot of broadcasting outside of the show — MLS, USL, MLS youth ranks, NWSL, CONCACAF Soccer.
So I felt that, regarding podcasting and Soccerwise, there was an opportunity to capitalize on the 2026 World Cup, which I think is a conversation everyone’s having. Where do you want to be positioned when that happens, and what is it going to mean for each of our lives?
I remember when it was first announced, I was sitting with a friend, and he said, “I guess I’m supposed to bring my kid to that,” like it was so far down the road at the time. It felt like a future thing, but now the 2026 World Cup is starting to become a reality.
So, I think that was part of it, and then I think part of it was the opportunity to work with people I want to work with and build a product for fans. One of the things that has not existed in the United States regarding soccer is just doing good, straightforward content.
Content for the soccer fan — doing a good show for people. Soccer has so often been the test subject for gimmicks, like “Let’s put the camera here,” or “We’ll do this.” We just want to put out good content.
Get fans engaged in the sport or league. That’s why we built depth charts and salary cap tables, which you’ll see all over the internet for other leagues. But you often don’t see that kind of content for MLS and NWSL — talking about them at a deeper level, understanding moves and transfers, and all of that.
You too can access our MLS depth charts and salary tables by signing up for our patreon!
You also get access to our super fun Discord where you can bond with other MLS nerds 😉 https://t.co/0QS3P0beZ7 https://t.co/HsoTa1orXX
— Soccerwise (@SoccerwiseHQ) November 11, 2024
The soccer audience is heavily divided in the U.S. — be it on television or even now in podcasting. It seems that the sport is always after the same audience member, keeping it too niche. Would you agree with that?
I think one of the problems with soccer in the U.S., and probably soccer in the world, is that fragmented nature. Like you said, on a Saturday, how many people are watching soccer?
Fans are watching their respective teams, be they in Colombia or Serie A. The challenge for networks is pulling everything together, unless they go out and acquire the rights to it, which is tough. This issue is made even harder by the fragmentation of the media landscape, where it’s increasingly difficult to identify trendsetters.
There’s a lot of noise — people yelling on Twitter, amassing followers whose authenticity is uncertain — and it’s hard to know what’s real. This makes it tough to find a consistent narrative or direction. This is part of why we don’t see one clear movement right now.
Soccer teams around the world are also facing similar challenges, as they aspire to be like the Dallas Cowboys or the Green Bay Packers. This ties into the Super League conversation and what might unfold in the next five to 10 years. However, this issue affects the U.S. uniquely because the other major sports have already been built.
For example, I don’t know if the NBA or NFL would be the same if they started in 1996. The reality is that it might be nearly impossible to recreate the success of these leagues today. Many are trying to start new leagues, investing in volleyball, track and field, and even paddleball, but the truth might be that if you didn’t start at a time when there was nothing else to watch, it’s incredibly difficult to build something comparable.
For 30 years, these sports have been ingrained in people’s lives. It’s not just about offering something new — it’s about competing with that history of cultural relevance.
That said, I think there’s still room for other sports to carve out their own space. But when you compare leagues like MLS and NWSL to the NBA or the Premier League, it’s important to recognize that they’re operating in a different time and under different conditions.
Given the fragmented nature of the sport and how different podcasters and soccer shows are chasing the same fan, doesn’t soccer need bigger exposure via mainstream sports personalities like Stephen A. Smith? Something to bring it more to the masses?
I think one of the key things that sports fans connect to is stakes and passion. Personally, I’ll watch the last two minutes of any sporting event, no matter the sport, as long as it’s close and it matters. That’s what draws me in. So when you’re generating coverage around sports, you’re trying to capture that same sense of importance.
For someone like Stephen A. Smith to spend four hours discussing the Dallas Cowboys’ coaching search, it has to matter to him — which it clearly does — and to others as well. That’s the essence of what we’re aiming for in our coverage: it matters to us, it matters to the people around us, and we’re genuinely engaged with the players, teams, and stories in the sports world. As fans, we enjoy consuming content when there’s something at stake, and we can form a connection to it.
For us, that means talking about the players who excite us, which naturally creates a connection with the audience. It’s also about highlighting the teams doing things the right way, pushing the game forward, and showcasing the personalities involved. We believe that by being our authentic selves, we can differentiate ourselves in this space. We’re not just covering sports — we genuinely care about the leagues, the growth of the sport, and what it means to the country and the world.
We approach this with knowledge and insight that not everyone brings to the table. With 30 teams in MLS alone, I’m interviewing people from all over to preview the season. Then, on top of that, there’s the NWSL, USL Super League, MLS Next Pro, and the Canadian Premier League. It’s a lot to cover, but it’s what sets us apart. We take pride in putting in the work, and I believe that authenticity will resonate with people.
On the other hand, I’m not sure the mainstream media always feels authentic when it comes to soccer. We’ve seen personalities like Colin Cowherd and Stephen A. Smith talk about Gregg Berhalter and other soccer topics, but sometimes it feels forced. There’s a disconnect in how these conversations are framed. Elevating people who truly understand the sport into bigger media platforms could make a huge difference.
The Relevance of MLS
One of the general complaints I’ve come across, especially within the U.S. soccer fan base, is that the storytelling around MLS hasn’t been interesting enough to elevate the league to mainstream platforms. It often feels more tailored to the soccer audience. Do you think this has been an issue for MLS? Are there certain stories that could resonate more with the mass media? Is MLS too international?
These are great questions, and I don’t think there’s a clear-cut answer to them. Speaking from an outsider’s perspective, it seems like the league is harder to cover than it should be. The access just isn’t where it needs to be for a league that’s looking to grow its presence.
Often, the league and its teams operate like a Premier League club — highly protective, with everyone eager to get a peek inside. But in reality, not many people are trying to break through that door.
MLS needs to push more stories out there. One of the challenges is that you don’t always know what’s going to resonate with people. As I mentioned earlier, passion and authenticity matter. You need to put a lot out into the world and let people find the stories that speak to them. If you try to force a connection or curate everything too tightly, you risk missing a lot of opportunities.
For example, as a New York sports fan, I think Jeremy Lin’s run with the Knicks was one of the best things that’s ever happened in sports. It connected with people in a way that was completely organic. But you have to be open to moments like that happening. I also think about when the New York Mets had a second baseman who sang a pop song, and they let him perform it on the field. It may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but some fans, reporters, and content creators loved it. If these kinds of moments are exposed and allowed to thrive, people will find them.
Right now, too much of that is hidden in MLS. Soccer is a global sport, and the U.S. is a diverse country. If you include Canada, it’s even more diverse. There are huge opportunities there. Take, for example, a Salvadoran player in Washington, D.C. — you can tap into a fan base that might not connect with the Washington Wizards, but will connect with that player.
There are definitely advantages to this diversity. The key is to put energy into building the stars, though, and that’s where MLS is still catching up. Right now, the league is caught between wanting to be a selling league and also being a buying league. How many posters of Lucho Acosta or Cucho Hernández are you going to put up in Ohio, knowing they could be gone in six months? Building stability is key for star development.
Look at the NBA, which does this better than anyone. There are 12 to 15 mega stars who are always in the spotlight, no matter where they go. That’s tough to replicate, but I do believe MLS can still push to elevate its players in a similar way.
What do you think about the Apple TV deal and the limited information we have from them in regards to numbers, and what does it mean long term? The league needs a major television deal, otherwise it will never be able to spend what other leagues spend to improve their product.
Yeah, I mean, none of us have access to the numbers, which makes it incredibly difficult to gauge the full picture. But it’s clear that MLS clubs have reached a new level of visibility within their local markets and have achieved greater sustainability. The next major growth opportunity, as you mentioned, will likely be a significant leap on a national or global scale. That said, I still believe the real “golden goose” in all of this is the game day experience.
Whatever the future of broadcasting looks like, it has to highlight and amplify that atmosphere in the best possible way. If you want to truly showcase the league, you need cameras and microphones inside the supporters’ sections and throughout the stadiums. Imagine having shots from the rooftops of these venues, capturing the full energy.
The strength of Major League Soccer is that if you get someone into the building, they’re likely to come back. The experience of attending an MLS game is consistently positive, regardless of how the team is performing. It’s a fun and unique atmosphere — different from other professional sports. The ease of entry and exit, the music, the sound, the energy — there’s something special about it. So, the game day experience has to remain front and center.
From there, the broadcast needs to be built to amplify that experience. Timing plays a huge role in this — what’s going to be the best time for a given market? The goal should be to create an experience that draws in the best possible crowd. I remember years ago, there was a Friday night package on Univision, and they were trying to air games in Dallas and Houston. A 6:30 p.m. kickoff in Dallas on a Friday was a tough sell because fans were stuck in traffic, and the stadiums were empty.
The broadcast needs to reflect the energy of the stadium and sell that experience to viewers at home. While the fans in the stands aren’t the only thing MLS is selling, they are the most important asset the league has. So, whatever the broadcasting strategy is, it must be designed to showcase that energy and let people experience it from afar. Expansion doesn’t really worry me.
As long as teams are being placed in the right markets with solid plans, the league will continue to grow without sacrificing quality. It’s a huge country, and look at the recent additions — Charlotte, St. Louis, San Diego — those are all going to be fantastic places for soccer. They’ll be great atmospheres to be part of, and they’ll broadcast well, too. When you turn on the TV and see games from these cities, it’ll be exciting and fresh. That’s the kind of energy MLS needs to keep at the forefront.
MLS vs. the USL
What do you make of the USL announcing they want to be a first division league in the U.S., and what does that mean to the already congested soccer landscape?
Honestly, I’m still confused. It’s been 24 hours since the news broke (at the time of the interview), and I’ve spoken to a lot of people, but no one has a consistent take on it. Most of the people I’ve talked to aren’t directly connected to the league or the clubs, though — they’re more people involved in the general environment around it.
And every conversation has produced a different perspective. We don’t really know what this will look like in practice. On the women’s side, for example, the USL Super League received Division One status when they applied, mainly because they were already meeting the necessary parameters. They thought, “Why not apply if we’re already in line with these requirements?”
Now, the USL Super League operates separately from the NWSL, and the two leagues are somewhat disconnected, with only a few loan arrangements between them. There’s no Open Cup on the women’s side, and until last year, there was no CONCACAF competition either. So, it’s hard to even imagine how this would function within the current structure.
The splintering of the league is also a real challenge. It’s difficult to explain all these changes to fans, especially when no one seems to have a clear, unified vision. If it were up to me, I would just ignore all the noise. If I were Louisville City, for instance, I wouldn’t focus on explaining why we don’t play the Red Bulls or why we’re in a different competition.
Instead, I’d just focus on putting together a good team, playing good soccer, and giving the fans a fun, professional experience. With 14,000 fans in the stands and an owner with a net worth of $6.5 million or more, who really cares about any of the other drama?
What’s frustrating to me is the amount of energy being spent on this internal conflict, especially when we’ve already seen how much time and resources were wasted during the NASL lawsuit.
There’s so much unnecessary fighting in soccer, and it doesn’t seem to benefit anyone in the long run. The focus should be on improving the game for everyone involved, and I’m not sure this move helps achieve that. I honestly don’t know where all of this will end, because I’m not clear on what the goal is. But I’ll tell you, people are fascinated by it, so at least it’s got that going for it — for now.
Why do you think people are so obsessed with seeing MLS’ final product be the best league in the world, rather than enjoying the ride the league has taken us on in the past 30 years? Why does MLS always have to be held to that “best league” standard?
Honestly, that’s a great question, and I’m not sure I have a clear answer. It’s similar to what people say every two years when they watch the Olympics: Americans like winners, and they want to believe their thing is the best. It’s just what they’re used to.
For example, a Belgian sports fan might support their local team, whether it’s in basketball, handball, or football, and that’s just the way it is. They know their team might not be the best in the world, but they still enjoy it as a connection to their community. In the U.S., though, we’re accustomed to calling things “world champions” and claiming to be the biggest and best at everything. That mindset likely ties into broader cultural ideas, as well as the influence of global leagues like the Premier League, Champions League, and Copa Libertadores, which are so accessible now.
As MLS and NWSL continue to grow, people feel like they have access to top-tier global soccer, and they might wonder, “Why should I settle for this local league when I can watch top-tier international teams?”
For example, I’m a Tottenham fan, and that will always be a competing interest for me, even if I love MLS. But part of this perception stems from the league itself. MLS has set that expectation, and if they hadn’t, we might not be having this conversation.
You can’t fail at something if you didn’t make it a goal in the first place. But I think MLS sees it as something worth striving for. From an ownership perspective, it makes sense. Look at Arthur Blank — everything he owns is the biggest or best in the world. Why wouldn’t this be the same? Robert Kraft’s the same. So it’s fair to want to be the best.
However, this mindset also creates some frustration. The reality is that in 24 markets across North America, you can wake up, watch a fun soccer game, and see players at various stages of their careers. Whether they’re young prospects, experienced veterans, or legends nearing the end of their careers, the level of play is solid.
The atmosphere in the stands is electric, with 15,000 to 20,000 passionate fans, great food, drinks, and music — it’s a fantastic experience. But then, thanks to the internet, fans sometimes leave the stadium and get caught up in comparing it to European teams: “Villarreal would never make that mistake.” And I just think, who cares? Why are we even having that conversation?
I don’t have a perfect answer for you, but I think part of it is about enjoying the experience for what it is. When I first got into MLS, I remember that deep fear about the league’s survival. There was a real sense of uncertainty — would it survive? Would it matter? That fear probably drove some of the intense promotion and the push for the league to be the best.
But as the league has become more stable, the newer fans and the original supporters may have had a shift in their mindset, pushing back against the over-hyping of MLS as a “world-class” league. They started thinking, “Why are we making it out to be something it’s not?” And that’s led to a reactionary attitude: people trying to prove that it’s not as good.
But now, I agree with you — enjoy it for what it is. I think that’s something we’ve really tried to do, especially at Soccerwise. As Tom has pointed out, if you’re a Minnesota United fan, it’s OK to simply enjoy the sport without comparing every little thing to European leagues. You can just wonder, “Are they going to be good this year?” and enjoy the players and the overall experience. It doesn’t always have to be about comparing MLS to the “best of the best.” Sometimes, you can just appreciate it for what it is.
